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Pedersoli Gibbs .451 rifle.....SN - DA97797 (Read 11552 times)
06/07/10 at 1:56pm

Dantforth   Offline
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Westport, Ontario, Canada

Posts: 74
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      I recently purchased this rifle and did not get the bullet mould with it,  I did get a small supply of cast and sized bullets (.450" X 1.237").  I have been to the range to shoot the rifle.  These bullets are very difficult to start but after about six inches  they do go down rather easily.  I only shot at 100 yards and only with 60 grains of powder but I was impressed with accuracy considering my very slim knowledge base.  I became a member here to expand my horizons so to speak.  The rifle had only been fired ten times before I purchased it.  I wiped between shots and used no over powder wad with F1 1/2 Swiss.  So, here are my questions which I qualify by saying that I will not be shooting in competitions and my longest range to use close by is 300 yards.  I do wish to shoot well but would be happy to start off with less expensive accoutrements until I gain some experience.  I have looked at the "Kit" that Cabala's has but would like input from members here as to bullet mould choice, diameter appropriate for this rifle and necessary accessories to aid my shooting.   I have included an image of the bullet.
 

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Reply #1 - 06/07/10 at 9:14pm

grey8833   Offline
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Posts: 32
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Danforth:

Bullet should not be hard to start.  I purchased the Gibbs mold for my rifle and use a Lee custom sizing die at .450 exact - actually cheap money, just had to wait forever to get it - their excuse was the ammo run last year (political reasons in the US).   My barrel is not a Gibbs and it pin gauges out at .451 exact.  I understand the Gibbs can be a bit smaller than .451, like .449.

The lube is mostly bees wax with some canola oil and Murphy's Oil Soap thrown in.

Sized bullets run down the .451 barrel under the weight of the loading rod. 

Hard start could be the sizing die or the grease hardened up.  I would suspect the sizing die, others will chime in I am sure, but if grease groove is what you want to do, just get the correct sizing die and that should do it.

Mike F
 

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Reply #2 - 06/08/10 at 1:04am

gcrank1   Offline
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Posts: 175
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Dave, It might be worth buying (or having someone send you a few) .449 and/or .450 bullets from another mould to try, or, if you have a machinist friend, have him make you a reamed & polished .450 die to use in your arbor press, with just enough entry taper to nicely start your as cast bullets. Of course, you will need to decide on a mould first, since you will use up what you have.
Use the 'std loading methodology' here and soft lead, often bore dia. for grease groove bullets.
I came to this forum last year under similar circumstances and got up to speed quickly with the posts from these chaps.
 

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Reply #3 - 06/08/10 at 11:41am

paulbehe   Offline
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Posts: 301
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I wonder if your barrel doesn't have a "choke" in it. Old time barrel makers would deliberately lap a barrel so the last six inches or so would be a few ten thousandths smaller than the rest of the bore. They claimed it improved accuracy. I'm pretty sure that if your barrel is "choked" it came from the factory that way quite by accident. If you want to remove it you could either firelap or very carefully hand lap the tight section of the bore. As far as bullets go, something a little more pointed such as a postell style bullet will be less wind sensitive. If you can beg or buy several different bullet styles, it will save you the expense of buying bullet moulds only to find out that your rifle doesn't like them. Buffalo arms sells lots of different bullet styles to try before you invest in the right mould.   cheers    Paul
 

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Reply #4 - 06/08/10 at 12:38pm

Dantforth   Offline
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Westport, Ontario, Canada

Posts: 74
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      I would like to try some .448, .449, .450" bullets in the rifle before I buy anything or go to a range with someone who is shooting their Gibbs successfully but I am in Eastern Ontario Canada and those opportunities are few here.  Similarly, there are no shops here which stock bullets or moulds.  I will be forced to buy on-line and take my chances I guess.  I do thank those who have given advise here.  If / when I get started I will report here.   Dave
 

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Reply #5 - 06/08/10 at 4:14pm

gcrank1   Offline
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Buffalo Arms has some 'straight sided paper patch bullets' at .448/580gr.Whitworth, and .450/400 (that fit my EuroArms PH-V bore perfectly), as well as several heavier ones. By running each downbore with a dampened swab patch on the rod I get consistent bore conditions. Then a dry patch followed by a lubed patch and the straight sided bullet has a lube suface to ride on.
After 5 shots I run a lightly dampened patch to the bottom to keep from building a crud ring that tends to form at the base of the projectile. Then a dry patch, snap a cap and it works all afternoon.
 

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Reply #6 - 06/08/10 at 6:08pm

Pat in Virginia   Offline
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Woodville, VA

Posts: 273
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Dantforth,

I also have a Pedersoli-Gibbs.  It has a 6-digit serial number, 138nnn.   It has a .449 bore.  The earlier PG rifles had smaller bores (as I have been given to understand).   Mine certainly does.  Since your serial number is less than mine I would bet you have a rifle with a .448-.449 bore as well.

I also have the Pedersoli .451 mould and the bullets it makes are too large for my rifle and have to be sized down to .448 to fit properly.

Pat
 

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Reply #7 - 06/09/10 at 6:46am

zrifleman   Offline
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My Gibbs has a DA116XXX number and has a .449 bore. To load without problems, I need a .448 grease groove bullet or .447 paper patch. Any variation in loading ressistance destroys accuracy.  The bullet needs to float down the barrel with the weight of the loading rod.
 

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Reply #8 - 06/09/10 at 11:29am

Dantforth   Offline
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Westport, Ontario, Canada

Posts: 74
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     Thank-you to all who responded here.  I was suspicious that I had an early rifle with the .448" bore.  I am currently deciding whether to buy a mould or to buy some bullets first to try in the rifle.  Buffalo arms was suggested.  The price of their bullets is reasonable enough but when I add the shipping I begin to wonder about buying a mould.  So...decisions...decisions!!  Thanks to all for their advise.   Dave
 

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Reply #9 - 06/09/10 at 3:15pm

gcrank1   Offline
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Posts: 175
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Remember too, that a mould throws a bullet of a given dia. only with a given alloy. We tend to talk pure lead or pretty soft alloy here, though for my short range and 'plinkers' I have used WWt cut 50/50 with lead.
Point being, that a commercial mould is often of a nominal casting dia. and you may not get the dia. you need. Custom mould makers want to know your 'alloy' and required dia. and compensate with the cherry size or lathe bore.
Considering the cost of moulds these days I would really want a few bullets cast from a mould to try before ordering one to find it wrong. Of course, if they are too big by a bit you can size down, but to get 'as casts' ready to pan lube and go is the happiest of occurrances.
 

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Reply #10 - 06/10/10 at 12:33pm

Richard Pearce   Offline
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Stouffville, Ontario, Canada

Posts: 38
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morning Danforth

High time that we had another Canadian Gibbs shooter. I have posted elsewhere on the subject but a couple of observations. Joe Hepsworth at Cunard has supplied all my PGibbs requirements superbly and the shipping to Canada is a non event. He sells two types of PP bullets and one mikes .448 and the other.449. In my gun the .448's slide down the barrel as if of their own accord and give great sub-moa groups. The .449's need a little help down the barrel and shoot wherever they have a mind to! I cannot do anything with them! My advice is buy from Joe and you'll not be unhappy. Of course, I too have bought the die from Pedersoli, melting pot etc just in case I have to end up going with ringed bullets.
Where do you shoot? Cool
 

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Reply #11 - 06/10/10 at 12:38pm

Richard Pearce   Offline
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Stouffville, Ontario, Canada

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by the way Danforth

If you send me an email I'll send you a few of my PP's in .448 and .449 and you can try and see. Let me have the address and I'll Canada Post em Cool
 

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Reply #12 - 06/10/11 at 11:42pm

Dantforth   Offline
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Westport, Ontario, Canada

Posts: 74
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     Guys I didn't know whether to start a new thread for this or add it to my old one so I did the latter.  I was at the range today.  The good news was that I was trying a new GG bullet.  My fouling shot went into the top of the 4 inch bull at 100 yards.  From a clean barrel I expected the first would be high.  The second ond third shots went in the center of the bull touching each other.  Bad news.....While patting myself on the back I messed up my loading procedure for the fourth and it was two inches low.  More bad news is that on the next shot, while beginning to squeeze  the trigger, I heard and felt a click.  As I continued to squeeze I realized that something was wrong as it took about 15 - 20 pounds of pressure to get the rifle to fire.  By now I was gritting my teeth and closing my eyes and messed the target up.  I am getting the same slight click and heavy trigger pull every time now.  Has anyone experienced similar problems with their Pedersoli Gibbs lock?  I just thought I should add here that I also noticed that the hammer blew back into the half cock position after the fourth or fifth shot.  I was more focused on the trigger pull / lock problem so really didn't put the two events together.  I was using 90 brains of Swiss 1 1/2 powder a vegetable fiber wad and a 540 grain bullet.  
 

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Reply #13 - 06/11/11 at 5:48pm

jacko   Offline
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British Columbia Canada

Posts: 66
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Hi Danforth,
  I think that if your hammer blew back as you described you have a worn out  nipple. You can extract the old nipple and compare the bottom orifice with a new one. good luck.
 

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Reply #14 - 06/11/11 at 6:25pm

Dantforth   Offline
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Westport, Ontario, Canada

Posts: 74
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      Thanks Jacko.  This rifle wouldn't have been fired over thirty times.  The nipple is the original so I am in the process of ordering a platinum lined one.  I always seem to put things off until the last minute.  My most concern is for the trigger problem.  I was hoping someone here might have encountered similar woes.  I am just going to remove the lock to have a look at all.   David
 

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